A question for WM

23/11/2011 - 15:20 von karl | Report spam
Das ist von Tonico in sci.mathe.

Bisher keine Antwort des doch so redseligen Angesprochenen:

I'll take advantage of this brand new thread to make clear what I
think (not sure, just "think") is WM's problem with the infamous
sequence 0.1, 0.11, 0.111,...

WM writes down this seq. in the following, Cantorproof's-like, array:


He now continues: with a decimal point to the left, let us look at
what we get on the main diagonal:

0.1111, an infinite periodic decimal fraction whose actual value
is 1/9 , where by actual value we can, I hope, agree that we mean

1) the value of the converging infinite series 10^(-1) + 10^(-2)
+... , OR

2) the value of the converging sequence 10^(-n) when n --> oo

or some other equivalent thing.

WM continues: let us look now at the sequence formed by the
rightmost digit in every line of the above array, with (again) a
decimal point to the left:
0.1, 0.11, 0.111,... this is the very same sequence we got above,

Now begins the tricky part: WM SEEMS to believe that the above
disproves Cantor's Diagonal Proof, because we can get on the main
diagonal the SAME number (namely, 1/9) as we get by taking the (limit,
I suppose, of the)
rightmost digits on the right...contradiction!!

If the above INDEED is what WM means (and I can't be sure until he
acknowledges and conffirms this), then his mistake should be clear to
all: first CDP does NOT choose a diagonal but constructs a number OUT
of the digits of the main diagonal, number which can be easily shown
to be different from any element on the given list.
In the above argument NO NEW number was constructed out of the
diagonal so nothing has been proved about CDP at all, let alone a
Second, in this case it is possible to choose the "rightmost" digit
because of the special nature of the list. In general we can't do any
such thing (this won't work with WM because he'll argue, I'm afraid,
that one single instance behaving differently from what the theorem
states is enough to prove it wrong, and he'd be right if it weren't
for my first point above).

Finally, there's another possibility for what WM believes: maybe he
believes that choosing a number in any way using the diagonal can
a number that is already contained in the list, and this of course
would be a huge contradiction to CDP.

But this is not the case, since CDP would give in the case of the
particular list that WM uses, the number 0.888., which definitely
isn't in one of the lines of the list nor on the original diagonal of
the list.
I get this number using the Cantorlike procedure to choose the number
from the diagonal (what some call antidiagonal, I believe), say: if
the n-th digit of the n-th number in the list is 1, I then choose 8,
otherwise I choose 0.

Thus, I've implemented CDP in WM's list and I've just proved we get a
brand new number not already contained neither as element of the list
nor as the list's diagonal.

Let's see if WM answers, approves or rejects (part or all of) what I
wrote, and if he makes some repairs to my piece above.


Lesen sie die antworten

#1 Carsten Schultz
23/11/2011 - 15:38 | Warnen spam
Am 23.11.11 15:20, schrieb karl:
Das ist von Tonico in sci.mathe.

Bisher keine Antwort des doch so redseligen Angesprochenen:


Dieses ist eine deutschsprachige Newsgruppe zur Mathematik, keine
englischsprachige zu Mückenheims Unfug.


Carsten Schultz (2:38, 33:47)
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fingerprint on my home page.

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